Talk:Hell on Wheels

Untitled

The article's content simply wasn't supported by the source I added to the references (see edit history too please). I've updated the text to reflect that Bowles related, rather than coined, the phrase, but I don't see enough there to establish that this was indeed the first usage of the term. iMeowbot~Mw 23:00, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

---

Hi, IMeowbot.

The source you added does not contradict what I wrote. In sources I provide, Bowles is described as noting the phenomenon in North Platte, and one source has him actually coining the term. Bowles was a newspaper man. His Our New West need not be the first and only thing he wrote addressing the matter. Furthermore, the language of your source inplies that Hell on Wheels had already existed further east when it arriven in Benton, Wyoming:

"As the Railroad marched thus rapidly across the broad Continent of plain and mountain, there was improvised a rough and temporary town at its every public stopping-place... the vilest of men and of women made up this "Hell on Wheels," as it was most aptly termed.

When we were on the line, this congregation of scum and wickedness was within the Desert section, and was called Benton."

The North Platte claim is documented in two places that I know of:

[1] Stephen Ambrose's book: "Nothing Like It In the World: The Men Who Built the Transcontinental Railroad 1863-1869"

and, online, here (found in 20 seconds via Google):

[2] http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/tcrr/peopleevents/e_hell.html

"Massachusetts newspaper editor Samuel Bowles observed the peculiar representatives of American culture taking root in North Platte and christened what he saw 'Hell on Wheels'. The name would stick."

I'm willing to leave the claim that Bowles *coined* the term unstated, in fact, having weakened the claim that Bowles coined the term to the point where it is only stated that an early doumentation of the term is due to Bowles, perhaps the Bowels reference can be dispensed with entirely.

However, having read Ambrose's book, which douments the H.O.W. phenomenon well before the railroad reached Wyoming, I really think the Nebraska reference should stay in some form.

Besides the North Platte claim and Bowles coining the term, do you dispute anything else? I'm interested in getting the scarlet "A" off the article. -- M. E. Smith

• THANK YOU! This is exactly the kind of clarification the article needed. I'll remove the scarlet template as soon as I finish this comment. My apologies if that notation seemed unduly harsh, but an anon user had nominated this article for featured status. Without references, it looked too much like folklore, similar to how "There's a sucker born every minute" is popularly (and erroneously) attributed to Barnum. iMeowbot~Mw 19:15, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

---

Thanks, IMeowbot, and no offense taken. The little article, such as it is, is improved now, I think.

Somewhere along the line I got into the bad habit of forgetting to log in. (Hmm.. I think I'm doing it again. I'll log in after I post this.) I started this article, and I self-nom-ed it. However, the nomination was a bit of an experiment on Wikipedia, as this article hardly represents a great deal of work. I was just curious about the process. In hindsight, the "Did you know" section would be more appropriate for this article. I'm going to self-nom it there and see what happens. -- M. E. Smith

Oh, you can't nominate something for "Did you know?", and this article is no longer "recent". Oh, well, no matter, that's all this is worth. (But somebody should consider basing a "Gangs of New York" type movie on "Hell on Wheels".) -- M. E. Smith