Talk:Christian Democracy (Italy)

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 January 2019 and 20 March 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jmhines.

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 13 May 2019 and 1 July 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Bakjaewon. Peer reviewers: NehemiahBoreham.

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Christian Democracy (Italy, historical)

Here is the list of P2 members (I selected a non-italian site just for better "objectivity"): http://www.amnistia.net/news/gelli/lesnoms.htm

Mrs. Tina Anselmi, president of parliamentar inquiry commission on P2 was from DC.

Let's keep propaganda out of facts, please.

Presuming that enough informations are easily available on the web for a better idea of what P2 was and represented, and having seen no re-correction to the article in a reasonable time, I have to conclude that DC was effectively "tarnished from 1981 onward" (while I was ingenuously convinced that, apart from premier Forlani resigning due to a late divulgation of these lists, and ordinary political propaganda by leftists, nothing more of notable had disturbed this party about P2, to the point that Tina Anselmi, a DC, was named to judge it with the agreement of PCI).

Funny: DC "was" tarnished because P2 was projecting a golpe when the same DC was running Italy... (of course it was involved).

However, I'm not going now to censor the official version; who am I to do it?

Don't you think the Post WW2 period was important in the uprising of the Christian Democratic Party in Italy. Shouldn't that type of information be included? I am working on it right now. Bakjaewon (talk) 22:50, 21 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Cosa Nostra

Shouldn't there be a mention of Cosa Nostra? -- Error

Piazza del Gesù

Should it be mentioned that the DC site, the P2 site and Il Gesù Jesuit church are all located in the same Piazza del Gesù? --Error 02:06, 2 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

DC in government from 1945 to ??

According to an old book I have (from 1992) the DC had been continously in government from 1945 to that point in time. But what is the end point of this continuous time in government? Were they part of the government all the time up to the formation of the first Berlusconi-government??--Oddeivind (talk) 10:50, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

1994. --Checco (talk) 15:37, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Incorrect Link

In reference 17 where there should be a link to the letters Moro wrote critically of Andreotti is a link to a business hosting website Yepa. Perhaps we can find a link to a source of actual script of these letters. ThisisnotDavid1154 (talk) 20:20, 25 August 2016 (UTC)ThisisnotDavid1154[reply]

Party logo

It is a non-written custom of Wikipedia to have the last logo of a party in the infobox, it doesn't matter whether it is a current party or a former party, while previous logos should be included in the article's text. The last symbol of DC, used since the 1980s, is File:DC Logo.png, while the earlier one is File:DC PPI Shield.png. The former will stay in the infobox, the latter in the article's text. I hope new users understand this non-written custom and comply to it.

I take this opportunity to ask users to find the last logo of the Italian Socialist Party (carnation) in order to include it in the article's infobox.

--Checco (talk) 15:11, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What are your sources? We don't find them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.45.156.70 (talk) 15:46, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sources? There are plenty! I have even a facs-simile electoral ballot of 1992 at home! An interesting book DC posters is Che fine ha fatto la DC? by Claudio Baccarin. Please stop exchanging the symbols. --Checco (talk) 15:58, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

So, you can post the images you have. At this time, your affirmations are unreferenced. I hope you understand you need to prove what are you saying, before changing the page. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.45.156.70 (talk) 16:01, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You too, especially you as WHAT you are telling is unreferenced. If you don't remember the last logo of DC is not my problem, it is your problem. --Checco (talk) 16:03, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

[1] All the sources you need about my affirmations. What can I find YOUR presumptive logo?--79.45.156.70 (talk) 16:07, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I told you one source. In order to see the electoral ballot of 1992 you can see:

Luigi Morgano, Remo Sissa, Itinerari di educazione civica, La Scuola, Brescia 1993, p. 184.

--Checco (talk) 16:14, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ps: Please provide yourself of a nickname so that I can recognize you evry time I meet you. I will tell you my opinion about the changes you made to the articles in your talk page or in article talks! --Checco (talk) 16:22, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Please post a pic of that book: en.wiki rules about images are more free than it.wiki. Excuse me if I don't believe you, but you said "in fact that was the logo DC used in 1987 and 1992!" [2], and at least for the first year, your affirmations are evidently false: [3] (and in 1990 we are only 3 years before DC's disbanding).--79.45.156.70 (talk) 16:25, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You can call me "NumberOne".--79.45.156.70 (talk) 16:27, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

NumberOne?

It is true that in some posters DC continued to use the shield alone, but, as I told you, in the last elections (definitely 1992 as I saw in the book I cited). I'm sorry if you don't believe me but this is your problem: I had been a respected user of en.Wiki for many years and I don't like to be treated in this way. You can see a facs-simile of the 1992 electoral ballot here. Even if your total rollbacks were completely against the rules of Wikipedia, I chose not to rollback you again in order to let you understand I'm intrested in discussing with you. I wrote a message for you in Talk:Politics of Lombardy.

--Checco (talk) 16:49, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, your source is now a good source. But I still think that a one-time logo is less relevant than a logo used dozens of times.
It we are speaking about nazism, we can not give a more relevant place to Karl Donotz than Adolf Hitler, only by the fact that it was the last leader, don't you agree? NumberOne--79.45.156.70 (talk) 17:03, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This is not what we usually do in en.Wiki, but I coul agree with you. Let's other users' opinions. --Checco (talk) 18:07, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I generally agree with you when a party had a series of logos with quite the same duration (as PSI), but you see, here we are speaking about a 1:49 ratio..... NumberOne--79.24.129.86 (talk) 14:45, 18 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Move?

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: move. Kilo T 22:59, 13 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Christian Democracy (Italy, historical) → Christian Democracy (Italy) –

Per similar cases. See, for instance, Italian Socialist Party and Italian Socialist Party (2007). --Checco (talk) 15:45, 2 June 2011 (UTC) Checco (talk) 15:45, 2 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
See also Talk:Christian Democracy (Italy, current)#Move?. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 05:30, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support and comment. Christian Democracy, as the Italian Socialist Party, has been a big Italian party for decades until it was disbanded in 1994. New parties with identical names were launched later at some point, but they never reached the popularity of the late ones. That is why I propose that this page would be moved to Christian Democracy (Italy) and the other one to Christian Democracy (Italy, 1997), consistently with Italian Socialist Party (the late and big party) and Italian Socialist Party (2007) (the new and tiny one). It is so reasonable that I considered this proposal uncontroversial. --Checco (talk) 07:32, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Might Christian Democracy (Italian political party) be preferable? If a political party has a name that makes clear that it is a party, there's little need to mention more than the country, but "Christian Democracy (Italy)" could easily be confused with an article on the general topic of Christian democratic thought in Italy. Ucucha 08:05, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- It might, but as my idea was and is to simplify the title, I still prefer the original proposal. Note that an article on the general topic of Christian democratic thought in Italy would be titled "Christian democracy in Italy" not "Christian Democracy (Italy)". --Checco (talk) 08:18, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment what about the disambiguation page at Christian Democracy (Italy) ? 65.94.45.210 (talk) 12:56, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Of course, there will be a disambiguation at the top of the main article as in Italian Socialist Party and the disambiguation (created by me!) can be moved to a different title. Note that this case is identical with that of the Italian Socialist Party and we should deal with it consistently. --Checco (talk) 13:45, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - what about Christian Democracy (disambiguation) ? --Juanm (talk) 21:59, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - I don't see any particular need for a disambiguation page, but, in case, the title should be Christian Democracy (Italy, disambiguation): what do you think? More relevant, do you agree with the requested move? --Checco (talk) 10:32, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      - I don't know how this would work, it might be Christian Democracy (Italy) (disambiguation) or Christian Democracy (Italy (disambiguation)) . 65.95.15.60 (talk) 11:11, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      - The disambiguation page has already been moved by User:Boleyn on 11:33, June 9, 2011, so this subquestion is dead.--Juanm (talk) 14:45, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support per teh same reasons exposed at Italian Liberal Party discussion. Even here we have a main topic and many secondary topics, and so we should structure the names as indicated in WP:DABNAME. The main topic is the old Christian Democracy in Italy (the While Whale) founded in late 1940s, the secondary ones are the ones listed in the disambiguation page --Juanm (talk) 14:45, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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DC ideology

Greetings, all. Allow me to dispute statements presented as fact in the article.

Christian Democracy or Democrazia Cristiana (DC) was never a centrist party. The source invoked (Derbyshire, Derbyshire Political Systems Of The World, 1989) has the party as "Christian centrist" in the sense that it was not a hard-line religious, Christian party. DC was above all else a conservative and anti-communist party (Newell The Politics of Italy: Governance in a Normal Country, 2010). Also, not a "catch-all" party per se but a party that employed "a catch-all" strategy that was supposed to "reach beyond the ranks of the Catholic faithful and allow it to successfully act as the [country's] main bulwark against communism" (Newell, ibid). Giuseppe Dossetti, co-founder of the party, was clear since the beginning that this would be un movimento conservatore ("a conservative movement"). The CIA in its reports was typically referring to the DC's "conservatism," even when qualifying it as "mild." We should also point out the various positions adopted by DC throughout its history on the defining issues of divorce (see Divorce in Italy), abortion (see Ergas, Yasemine "Feminism and the Italian Party System: Women's Politics in a Decade of Turmoil"), extramarital sex (Ergas ibid), gay marriage, etc. The Christian Democrats steadfastly stood alongside the Vatican in opposing any liberalisation on these issues. The proper term to denote DC, therefore, per sources, is "conservative." -The Gnome (talk) 18:03, 12 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I respect your opinion, but I do not think it is based on sources and, above all, lacks historical perspective. Premise: we are talking about a party disbanded in 1994, thus some of its "conservative" positions were held also by some centre-left parties in the fifty years after WWI (just think of Ireland's Labour Party or, for that matter, United States' Democratic Party—even more recently Obama opposed same-sex marriage when he first ran for President). The DC was a broad-church party aiming at the "political unity of Catholics" and, as such, included right-wingers, centrists and left-wingers—no surprise that its heirs are now active in all mainstream political parties of Italy, from the right-wing Brothers of Italy to the centre-left Democratic Party (most of the latter's leaders are former Christian Democrats). This said, the DC's political position was centrist, as it was at the centre of Italian politics, with MSI and PLI at its right and PRI, PSDI, PSI and PCI at its left, but we do not really need to define its ideology as "centrist" as the party was mainly and unequivocally "Christian-democratic". --Checco (talk) 14:10, 15 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]