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Talk:Bob Charles (golfer)

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Titles are ok in wiki

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For some reason which he did not state, User:Poccil removed the title Sir before the name of Bob Charles. I replaced the title, saying ("Replace "Sir". Why deny him his title?)" User Poccil again removed the title a few minutes laer, again without comment. So, I have replaced it again, stating that it is the predominant wiki usage and asking he see this talk page. Anyone who has come here as the result of that request can visit Steve Redgrave, Clive Woodward, Elton John, Walter Raleigh and Edmund Hillary to see that while articles on knighted persons do correctly not use the title in the heading, the title is given to the person when opening the intro, as it should be, (see Winston Churchill in particular. Since when should wiki deny people their titles?

Removal of tag

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  • To explain what has happened re the removal of the cleanup tag, here is the info I posted to the User talk:MacGyverMagic page

Your comments re my removing Bob Charles (golfer) from cleanup are noted. As you are quick to give advice, can I refer you to what User:Adam Carr said recently when announcing he was pulling out of general editing. Here's a refresher

"Wikipedia must cease privileging process over product The objective of Wikpedia must be to produce an encyclopaedia, not to provide an adventure playground for every crank, cultist and nutcase on the planet."

Here we have an example allied to what Adam was on about. So please follow what happened

Dec 1 14:58. User:Poccil removed the title Sir from the Bob Charles article, without giving a reason

Dec 1 15:02. I replaced the word Sir and asked in the summary Why deny his title?

Dec 1 15:03 . Poccil removed the word Sir again, without comment, and without answering my question.

Dec 1 15:37. I replaced the word Sir, said in the summary it was per predominant wikistyle, and said "see talk page" where I clearly gave the rationale for keeping the title.

Dec 1 17:23. Poccil put a cleanup tag on the page commenting only, "check for neutrality", a spiteful edit if ever I saw one

Dec 1 19:59. I removed the tag saying it was absolute silliness.

Dec 1 22:32. You replaced the tag and gave me a lecture.

Dec 2 08:14. Poccil again edited the page, removing the word Sir from the bolded intro

Dec 2 08:16. Poccil edited the page again, amending a comma.


Your note to me was a cop out, a fine example of what Adam Carr was on about. You said, in part

"I'd like to inform you that removing cleanup tags is considered bad conduct. Feel free to head over to the talk page of the user who added it, and discuss it (ask for clarification what isn't neutral). But don't just remove it. ".

Removing tags IS NOT bad conduct when they need to be removed. You urge ME to ask a user who tagged the article to seek clarification. How about you ask HIM to clarify what isn't neutral, on the cleanup or talk pages? Are you unaware one of the guidelines for the cleanup page is Be specific. Saying "needs work" is not enough ?

When you relisted the article on cleanup, you said "needs NPOVing". Where does it need NPOVing? Why have you not said why it needs NPOVing? You are using, in fact abusing, the process, not working in the best interests of Wikipedia. I have revisted the article and cannot see anything that needs NPOVing, so consequently I am removing it from cleanup, and the tag. It's possible of course that new admins have much more superior powers to detect POV than the thousands of run of the mill editors like me, in which case I guess that without stating exactly what is wrong with it you will relist it again, without fixing it like a good little wikipedian should.

Also, saying something is silly may well be "considered uncivil by some", as you say. And it may well be not considered uncivil by others -- something to do with freedom of speech and thought and opinion. Kind regards.Moriori 02:33, Dec 2, 2004 (UTC)

Moriori 02:50, Dec 2, 2004 (UTC)

  • I went through the article and copied the phrases I think are POV here.
    • "and demonstrated great golfing potential."
    • "The media was full of praise for this slight young man"
    • "but all the while continued to show exceptional putting prowess"
    • "unerring putting"

I agree that Poccil shouldn't have removed "sir", but that has got nothing to do with the cleanup tag. [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm|(talk)]] 08:18, Dec 2, 2004 (UTC)

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