Talk:Henry Percy (Hotspur)

Untitled

We need a new place for Hotspur, but I'm not sure where it should be. john 04:41, 13 Jan 2004 (UTC)

The link is wrong for Elizabeth Mortimer. ~~Aelfwyn

Do you think there should be some reference to Henry Percy relating to his link to Tottenham Hotspur football club. the club is said to be named after him ~~joe —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joe a lewis (talk • contribs) 12:53, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Aelf old stick, I do believe that Hotspur was indeed married to Elizabeth de Mortimer.216.78.56.213 (talk) 08:52, 12 January 2009 (UTC) WSP

Name

This article name is erroneous, It should either be at Henry Percy (1366-1403) as per WP non inclusion of Knighthood honorifics, or at Harry Hotspur. He was never referred to as Henry Hotspur Percy, or even Henry Hotspur. He was however referred to as Sir Henry Percy, Harry Hostspur, or just plain Hostspur. Such was the problem encountered with the great grandfather of Hotspur's Scots foe, Archibald Douglas, 4th Earl of Douglas. Sir William Douglas (d.c 1298), known as Le Hardi or the Hardy, was never known as "William Douglas the Hardy" or "William the Hardy Douglas", as per a prior incarnation of that article, and is now at William the Hardy, Lord of Douglas. These assignation of random Wiki titles is insidious, as it allows any random editor to change nomenclature that has been around for centuries. Brendandh (talk) 14:37, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Matilda Percy?

You will find the correct names of Henry and Elizabeth's children here: Plantagenet Ancestry -- Lady Meg (talk) 06:28, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Page moved to Henry Percy (Hotspur). Consensus was to move, but the target was left open. The name chosen was one of those with support. Stronger support appeared to be for titles that were dab pages. A move there was not going to happen without establishing a primary topic and a multipage move listing to include the dab page. So having said that, feel free to renominate this if it really is in fact the primary topic for one of the other proposed names as part of a multipage move. A discussion here first to see which other name would be the best choice to nominate would seem to be the best direction forward so as not to muddy the new discussion about what the best alternative is. Vegaswikian (talk) 20:40, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Henry Hotspur Percy → Harry Hotspur – Relisted. Vegaswikian (talk) 02:00, 9 October 2011 (UTC) Henry Hotspur Percy is neologistic rubbish. Sir Henry Percy or Harry Hotspur. They are the only names for him in contemporary record or in Shakespeare Brendandh (talk) 00:19, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

• Prefer Henry Percy, "Hotspur". Sir Henry Percy was a historical person, most famous from Shakespeare's portayal of him. An alternative might by Henry Percy, nicknamed Hotspur. The present form is certainly not appropriate. However, Hotspur was a nickname not a surname. The present version is a credible search term and should be retained as a redirect. Peterkingiron (talk) 21:42, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
  • Prob is there are more than a few Henry Percys, insofar as there are more than a few Archibald or James Douglases. As per "Robert the Bruce" or "William the Lion" I suggest moving this article to a name by which the man was known, rather than just his Christian common name...Brendandh (talk) 00:05, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
• Several possibilities:
  • Henry Percy, since he's the only one on which we have an article and who doesn't have a peerage or courtesy title.
  • Henry Percy (Hotspur) as the obvious disambiguator.
  • Hotspur as the obvious unique name. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:02, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Would maybe concur with that first one, with the Earls & Dukes on a top of the page dab. Brendandh (talk) 21:43, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

• I agree that a move should be made. Henry Percy and Harry Hotspur are both acceptable to me, even Hotspur, which ought to redirect, and Henry Hotspur are okay. Any of the other suggestions above would be an improvement, but not my choice. Srnec (talk) 00:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

• I suggest Sir Henry Percy, which is what Britannica calls him. "Sir" makes it clear that we are not referring to one of the various earls named "Henry Percy". I am OK with Henry Percy as well. Kauffner (talk) 10:42, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Wrong picture

This picture is clearly not Harry Hotspur. He lived in the 14th Century and the clothes are totally wrong for the period. I've no idea who that is in the picture on the page.

Kotch5 (talk) 23:36, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

This is a 19th century artist's impression, which somewhat polishes the details of the armour, but is there evidence it is not intended to portray Hotspur?Cloptonson (talk) 12:34, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

The picture appears to have been removed since I posted but I declare I did not remove it.Cloptonson (talk) 12:55, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Consolidation of cite references

Thanks to Trappist the Monk for consolidating the citation references. I didn't know how to do that. NinaGreen (talk) 16:51, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Ancestry Inconsistency

In looking at the Ancestry tree here, it shows 15 as Isolt Mortimer, 30 as Edmund Mortimer, 1st Lord of Mortimer, and 31 as Margaret Fiennes. However, in looking around the rest of Wikipedia, I find Margaret Mortimer, Baroness Mortimer nee Fiennes is apparently married to Edmund Mortimer, 2nd Baron Mortimer, and that his father was 1st Baron Mortimer. However, neither of their pages show a daughter named Isolt, nor a daughter who married an Audley. Those pages appear to have good sources for their data, while there is no source listed on this tree. Does anyone have a source which could help clarify here? 1bandsaw (talk) 22:00, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Did Prince Henry kill Hotspur?

I have not found any attempt in articles about Hotspur, the Battle of Shrewsbury and Henry V, as the Prince of Wales became, to distinctly point out whether or not Prince Henry actually killed Hotspur. Shakespeare, and those who have followed his Henry IV Part I narrative - such as Orson Welles in his movie Chimes at Midnight (1966) - dramatically portray the prince killing Hotspur in single combat. Could someone clarify? In the article by Simon Walker on Percy/Hotspur in the ODNB (2003), the latter's death is summed up: ...Hotspur himself, driving towards the royal standard, was struck down and killed but is silent on the actual killer.Cloptonson (talk) 12:49, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Always good to look at surrounding articles in a case like this. Allmand, in the article on Henry V, says Henry "was probably not personally responsible for Hotspur's death (as Shakespeare was to have it), but that event led quickly to the collapse of the rebel army" (C. T. Allmand, ‘Henry V (1386–1422)’, Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, Oxford University Press, 2004; online edn, Sept 2010 accessed 16 Mar 2014), and Jacob that Hotspur was "surrounded and killed" (Jacob, E.F., The Fifteenth Century, Oxford (repr.) 1993, p.52)

Thank you. I have just read John Barratt's book on the Battle of Shrewsbury (published 2010) in the Campaign Chronicles series, which mentions chronicler Thomas Wolsingham stated Hotspur was unexpectedly cut down, by whose hand is not known. Prince Henry being on the victor side, there was opportunity for the claim to be made by him or on his behalf in his lifetime.Cloptonson (talk) 14:38, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Also, Henry was seriously wounded in the battle by an arrow which put him out of action. This could be interpreted as meaning that he never got into close combat with anyone. Deb (talk) 13:06, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

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