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Dubious entries

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It seems that some of the individuals who were formerly on this list (now listed below) might not meet the notability criteria. At a glance, it might look like I simply removed most of the red links; I am aware that red links can become blue links, in time, and that is how our beloved Wikipedia grows. I argue, however, that just because a magician has his own website, performs prestidigitations for a living, has a new video about coin manipulations, and/or is the subject of some obscure magazine article does not necessarily mean that he fulfills reasons for being on this list. I'm not sure if Wikipedia would benefit by having a number of un-expandable stubs that read something like this:

So-and-so is a magician from Nowhere, Inparticular. He performs at birthday parties and bar mitzvahs. Nobody Youcareabout has said "...he is the most tallented performer of his time." He was on some TV show once. His website is...

So here's who I removed from the list. And, as a courtesy, I've listed some websites I found for each using Google. Perhaps future additions to the list should be checked for notability. -- Krash 14:46, 19 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for adding comments in the middle of everything. I'll put comments after each name, to explain who is who of those I know about. I'll mark my comments with a "T" --TStone 01:31, 23 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Striked names have been returned to the article. Thanks for your insight, Tom. -- Krash (Talk) 21:46, 7 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

removed

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spared...but slightly dubious

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Fictional Magicians list?

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Would you approve of adding a list for Fictional Stage Magicians/Illusionists and escape artists? (It would be unconnected with this list.)

I approve wholeheartedly of everything you are contributing! I just added a name who is an icon in India although he died before I was born - P.C. Sorcar (not to be confused with his quite famous-in-India son Pradip Sorcar, or P.C. Sorcar Junior). But the page itself is nothing. There is so much on Google about him but magic is not my field. He used to rank up there as one of the biggest celebrities in India in his lifetime. It is so strange to me that so many names of magicians in the 'IN' list have no press clippings or record of performing in important theatres - but they have bigger pages than Sorcar. Autumnleaf 00:45, 24 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
True. P.C. Sorcar is a very known name in the field.--TStone 01:31, 23 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Don't forget George Oscar Bluth. Or maybe he would be better suited for the Fictional Illusionist's list?

Merge proposal

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Per the proposal to merge the Magic Consultant list to this list, I personally agree. The new "consultants" list just seems to be an additional location where non-notable magicians are adding their names as a way of self-promotion. --Elonka 16:53, 4 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The problem with merging these lists is that those who could be properly included on the Magic Consultant list are not generally performers - and so shouldn't be on this list. Some of the consultants (Ali Bongo for example) clearly are performers, but Jim Steinmeyer isn't, and Andrew Mayne is know principally as a designer of illusions and effects, not as a performer. Breakdown 15:30, 14 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Apart from the fact it should be Magic consultant instead of Magic Consultant, I think Breakdown makes an excellent point. This list of magicians includes only performers and moving the consultants here would increase the number of self-promotional entries this lists already gets on its own. I would prefer keeping the consultant list in check over merging two lists that basically are about different subjects. - Mgm|(talk) 10:22, 26 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
As there's been no further comments on this, I am going to remove the merge proposal. Breakdown 14:03, 6 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. --Elonka 17:10, 6 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Angela Funovits

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Angela Funovits needs to be added. Also, the list should include "mentalists"; another type of illusionist/magician. Angela practices mentalism, and is known to be a mentalist.

I agree. Everyone is talking about her and what she can do for Magic.75.92.181.230 (talk) 07:06, 22 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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This list is a mess, with dozens of redlinks of the names of magicians of dubious notability, while missing "real" magicians such as Whit Haydn. I've been adding a few names, but I really want to go through this list from top to bottom and remove all the redlinks, along with doublechecking the existing links to make sure they're to "real" bios, and not just to self-promotional pages. Would anyone object to this? --Elonka 19:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In my opinion, go for it. This should be a list of notable magicians who have Wikipedia articles...not simply a huge list of anyone who considers him/herself a magician. No article, not entry on the list. IrishGuy talk 22:17, 3 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
As per other lists (List of sketch comedy groups, List of science fiction authors, etc.) I removed all the redlinks. Without an article, a name doesn't belong here. This isn't just a huge list of anyone who may consider him/herself a magician, but instead is a list of magicians with encyclopedia articles written about them. It should have the added benefit of catching spam/self-promotional links quicker. IrishGuy talk 21:54, 15 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It seems that a number of names have been removed, including a number of names I added last year during a bout of consecutive edits. So yeah...I object. Also, why names are written "surname, first name" on this list? -- Krash (Talk) 14:52, 9 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that it can be useful to have a list of magicians that still need to have articles written, but I disagree that the main list page is the best place for this. I think it would be better to provide a list here on the talk page, and then as each article is created, that name can be added to the main list. The problem with allowing redlinks in the main list, is that it becomes a magnet for every two-bit card shark that's trying to drum up business for local birthday parties. That's why we want to ensure that we have "article first, link second," rather than the other way around. --Elonka 20:52, 11 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • WP:REDLINK says that redlinks are 100% OK in this context. We need to start adopting this because the list isn't going to grow otherwise. There are still too many important magicians missing from here. I'll try to overhaul it when I get a chance. Opportunitycost

You guys are really a piece of work

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You know, Wikipedia has a policy against personal attacks....and I'm on the verge of breaking it reading some things on this talk page. I'll simply leave it at this: if a magician has contributed something measurable to the world of magic and his/her contributions are verifiable, THEY BELONG IN WIKIPEDIA! I love the fact that because SomeCoolGuy has never heard of Lou Leventhal, then that means he's a "dubious" entry. Here's my vote: list the magician, list a reference and everyone else leave it alone! Buddpaul 04:37, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You don't want to make a personal attack, but your user example is "SomeCoolGuy"? Why don't you step down from your soapbox and actually read what people have written. It isn't about not having heard of the magician, it is about not adding names that don't have articles. Those articles must have multiple verifiable references per policy. IrishGuy talk 19:40, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • The whole point of lists is that, opposed to categories, they can have redlinks. Whoever adds a name just needs to add a source to clarify their notability too. - Mgm|(talk) 13:12, 9 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Name order.

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Why are all these names listed with the surname first? As far as I can tell, that's against the WP:MOS. - Mgm|(talk) 13:13, 9 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguation

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I am SO CONFUSED with disambiguation!!! I want a page for Mark Horowitz, THE MAGICIAN, not the professor.....grrrrrr! I cannot "get" disambiguation! Buddpaul 18:31, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Try here: Mark Horowitz (magician). But are you sure he meets WP:BIO? --Elonka 05:55, 11 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


What is this page for?

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I'm thinking of nominating this page for deletion because I cannot see how it offers anything more that the category "magicians" does. Can anyone explain why this list is needed? Cheers. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 18:28, 22 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, yes, it might be better handled by a category. On the other hand, it's a great piece of flypaper that alerts us to inappropriate "advertising" articles. So personally, I think it's worth keeping for that purpose. --Elonka 18:35, 22 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Hadn't thought of it like that. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 17:52, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How to nominate magicians to the list?

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I would like to add Armando Lucero among others to this list. Along with Bob Sheets, Johnny and Pam Thompson, Paul Vigil, Dan White. There are others that should be added. I don't want to add the names just to get them deleted the next day. How do we do this?75.92.181.230 (talk) 07:13, 22 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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