Talk:Sufi whirling

Major Edit

This is a fairly silly How-To rather than an encyclopaedic article. I will try and re-organise everything a bit. All cut bist of text will be pasted below to make it easier for peole who do nt agree with me. Refdoc 21:19, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Done... Tell me what you think!Refdoc 21:41, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)

• Your edit is much more encyclopedic than the junk below, but what's left is still a HOWTO. At least it's not a promotional ad anymore. "Experts (like me) recommend..." — sheesh. --Ardonik 03:18, Jul 18, 2004 (UTC)

How-to? Don't tell me. You are right of course. But I have no clue about whirling and thought basically to take the gushing and overly personal out. The remainder might educate someone like me... Refdoc 08:26, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Turkey ??

This article needs to be somewhat rewritten, because it claims that "Sufi Whirling" is only practiced amongst Sufis of Turkey. This is wrong. It is also practiced amongst Qalandariya and Qadirya Sufis of South Asia, the Middle East and elsewhere, though it is not the only Dhikr inducing practice. Sufism as well as Sufi practices have absolutely nothing to do with modern Turkey's nationalistic pariotism nor does it wants to be portrayed as postcard tourism. It also needs to be mentioned that the practice has been outlawed by secular Turkey and has only recently be re-allowed to entertain foreign tourists.95.223.187.171 (talk) 10:03, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Old Cut Text

Sufism
This article is part of the branches of CAM series.
CAM Classifications
NCCAM:	Mind-Body Intervention
Modality:	Self-care
Knowledge:	Enlightenment
Culture:	Eastern/Middle-Eastern

• "and whirling which resembles the rotation of other beings such as electrons and planets of the micro- and macrocosmos" this seems to be hinting at some sort of new age interpretation of the dance. is there evidence to back this statement up?

• in fact Maulana Rumi is the big daddy of Sufi whirling in its modern format.

>>In fact he isn't. The whirling of Rumi differs from the modern format; he only used to 'whirl' as the seyh does towards the end of the sema, not as the semazens do.

• (This definitely brings out toxins, but ultimately, also brings out the nectar of immortality)

• - It is claimed that this is what the ancients in the Vedas meant by the Churning of the Ocean using the mount Meru (Merudanda means spinal cord in Sanskrit)... spinning using the spinal cord as a base.

• Whirling is something which comes easily to any kid, if you remember your childhood, spinning like a top is something which kids almost do instinctively. Why only kids? Is not the whole universe with all planets, galaxies, atoms -- every part of the universe, whether micro or macro, is whirling, singing the song of divinity.

• Sufi whirling is an exciting meditation, based on this ancient and forceful technique - going back to the real nature of the universe. The basic meditational practice is to whirl with open eyes, just like small children twirling. The meditator's whole body becomes a top, moving, spinning like a top, moving.

• Experts (like me) recommend refraining from food or drink for three hours before whirling, and to wear loose clothing and have bare feet. Sufi whirling is divided into two stages: whirling and resting (unwhirling). There is no fixed time for the whirling—it can go on for hours or even days as did Rumi—but it is suggested that practitioners continue for at least an hour to get fully into the feeling of the energy whirlpool.

• Some people may feel nauseous during the whirling meditation, but this feeling should disappear within two or three days. Whirlers should discontinue the meditation if it persists.

• P.s.: If after this stage, you haven't thrown up, welcome to the world of the Sufis with simple but powerful truths... simple living and high thinking.

• Whirling is a really cool way of whacking your mind into being quiet.. try it out.

• Alternatively, they could learn Kathak Dancing.

• and the whirler ideally becomes a whirlpool of energy--the periphery a storm of movement but the witness at the centre still. Practitioners suggest that an additional energy kick is made possible holding up one hand high another low below your waist facing...a true gateway for energy to pass through you. It is difficult to predict when you stop whirling and the energy takes over, but take over it does... and spins you like a top.

• Whoever wrote this article doesn't know much about the Mevlevi Dervishes. There is no such thing as 'unwhirling' or falling down, letting one's belly button touch the floor. This sounds more like new age material than Sufism. If you'd like to see the real thing, go to Turkey and watch it for yourself.

Title!

U can call it the sufi(dance)!!! But otherwise great job!!! The drakon (talk) 15:54, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Notice of relevant discussion

A discussion related to this article is underway at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Whirling. Ibadibam (talk) 23:55, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Changes after merge

I have made an attempt to better integrate the recently merged content into the article.

• Moved CNN source to "Today" section. This source didn't really discuss tanoura or non-Sufi whirling, but did talk about recent changes, so I added content from the source.
• Rewrote tanoura section to better explain connections to the Turkish tradition
• Removed cluttered images and replaced with a more representative image of tanoura
• Removed some merged-in content originally from whirling, as it's redundant to the discussions of history and Sufi meaning already covered in this article
• Condensed content merged from whirling per WP:UNDUE
• Removed links to websites of performers, which appear to be promotional
• Split off world records into a separate section, and added sourced information about other record holders
• Moved several refs to "external links", as these were not directly supporting any content in the article that I could ascertain, but may be worked back into the article in the future

Going forward, it would be nice to get a few more sources about tanoura in Egypt, which are probably out there in ethnomusicological sources and travel literature. Ibadibam (talk) 02:48, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

Source on Pakistani practice

To be incorporated:

• Frembgen, Jürgen Wasim (2012). "Dhamāl and the Performing Body: Trance Dance in the Devotional Sufi Practice of Pakistan". Journal of Sufi Studies. 1: 77–113.

There's a lot in there. Ibadibam (talk) 19:50, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

Proposal: Merging this page with Samā

I want to point out that the contents of this page are already covered in English-language Wikipedia under the title of "Sama (Sufism)". The reason for this is that "Sufi whirling" is an English translation of samā (or in Turkish transliteration, Sema). This can be seen clearly in the similar contents of the two pages. Keeping this page is unfortunately simply wasting space and adding un-needed confusion to readers of the subject. I propose the contents be kept, but merged with the Samā page.

Discussion on how it could be merged:

1) The introduction could be incorporated into the introduction of the Samā page, if slightly edited to acknowledge the difference between Samā and the Mevlevi Sema ceremony. It is important to note that the Mevlevi Sema ceremony was a particular adaptation of an already existing practice. Samā can be characterized by the act of listening to Sufi poetry, music, or chanting and reacting with bodily movements, physical agitation or dance. The Mevlevi Sema ceremony is a hyper-stylized form of Samā that puts primacy on the act of dance. Additionally, the statement that Sufi Whirling is "a form of physically active meditation" should be added under a new section titled "In the West." While this is not inaccurate, it is a modern Western notion of what the ritual is. 2) The section titled "Origin" is less of an origin of the Samā, and more an origin of Sufi orders. This poses a problem as Samā potentially existed prior to Sufi orders - or at least, it was practiced outside of Sufi orders. This section could be potentially lifted word-to-word from Carl W. Ernst's introductory book to Sufism. 3) The section titled "Practice" and "Today" should be added under the "Mevlevi" sub-subtitle on the Samā page. The "Physiology" section can be added under "Mevlevi" or perhaps a new section titled "In the West."

Sources:

K. S. Avery, "A Psychology of Early Sufi Samā ʿ: Listening and Altered States." Carl W. Ernst, "Sufism: An Introduction to the Mystical Tradition of Islam" "Samāʿ" Encyclopedia of Islam, Second edition