Talk:The finger

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the The finger article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2: 28 days

Wikipedia is not censored.
Images or details contained within this article may be graphic or otherwise objectionable to some readers, to ensure a quality article and complete coverage of its subject matter. For more information, please refer to Wikipedia's content disclaimer regarding potentially objectionable content and options for not seeing an image.

The finger has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
October 15, 2012	Good article nominee	Listed

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on August 2, 2012.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that the Connecticut Supreme Court found that giving the finger (pictured) was offensive, but not obscene?

Anthropology Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Anthropology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Anthropology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AnthropologyWikipedia:WikiProject AnthropologyTemplate:WikiProject AnthropologyAnthropology articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.

Culture Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Culture, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of culture on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CultureWikipedia:WikiProject CultureTemplate:WikiProject Cultureculture articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Psychology Low‑importance

	Psychology portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Psychology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Psychology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PsychologyWikipedia:WikiProject PsychologyTemplate:WikiProject Psychologypsychology articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Sociology Low‑importance

	Society portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sociology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of sociology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SociologyWikipedia:WikiProject SociologyTemplate:WikiProject Sociologysociology articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Freedom of speech Low‑importance

	Freedom of speech portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Freedom of speech, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Freedom of speech on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Freedom of speechWikipedia:WikiProject Freedom of speechTemplate:WikiProject Freedom of speechFreedom of speech articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Archives

1, 2

This page has archives. Sections older than 28 days may be automatically archived by when more than 4 sections are present.

Lack of other European output

The gesture is also used to say "piss off" which is a alternative to the "fuck you" gesture, moreso in meaning "get lost".

Semi-protected edit request on 23 November 2023

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Omit the word obscene in the first sentence. It is false as well as misleading. Billzwick (talk) 04:35, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The middle finger doesn't appear to lead people to think about the penis, according to research. [1]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6490901/]

Numerous courts have also opined on the matter, ruling that the gesture isn't obscene (on its own).

[2]https://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2010/03/middlefinger.pdf] Billzwick (talk) 04:45, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: Just because it isn't legally considered obscene in the United States doesn't mean it isn't considered obscene – the article does discuss its legal status in the US under the section Political and military use. I'll note that the journal article you cite calls the gesture obscene right in the abstract and throughout the rest of the article. Tollens (talk) 08:07, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like the Wired article does too: That a gesture may be described as obscene in the common parlance is not determinative of whether that gesture falls within the legal definition of "obscene" speech. (page 1431). Tollens (talk) 08:12, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The middle finger is not used or received to connote sexual gestures or disgustingness, research shows, and as far as common parlance goes, it is not amoral or indecent given that it's a protected expression in multiple areas of the world. Calling 'contempt' and/or 'protest' obscene and therefore disgusting as well as amoral sure is an exaggeration and immensely anti-American. Billzwick (talk) 15:06, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

By calling the gesture obscene, you're negating the many positive aspects underlying acts of defiance and rebellion, and overlooking the fact that the gesture is also used as a nonviolent form of emotional communication and dissent. Billzwick (talk) 15:13, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If the courts aren't worthy of defining the word obscene, then who is? Apparently anyone else, according to this article. Per common parlance, how are you even defining that?! For the record, Canadian courts as well as Scandinavian ones have also ruled that the middle finger is not an obscene gesture on its own. Billzwick (talk) 15:20, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia isn't in the business of correcting 'errors' that other reliable sources have published – it's merely a summary of what has already been written about a topic. If reliable sources tend to call the gesture 'obscene' (which they do seem to), that's the word that gets used in the article whether or not we agree. Tollens (talk) 21:16, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That some others seem to call it obscene might be because of this article, and not vice versa. And isn't that a part of dissent and contempt -- safeguarding the minority from the majority?! Billzwick (talk) 22:41, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's not relevant why reliable sources use the terms they do, just that they do. Wikipedia is not the place for righting great wrongs. Tollens (talk) 23:02, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Jerry Seinfeld’s Alternate Gesture

Comedian Jerry Seinfeld has suggested that giving someone “the toe” would be worse than giving them “the finger”. He believes that showing someone your smelly, hairy toe is worse than a finger. Mitch045 (talk) 14:09, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Battle of Agincourt story

Should we address the commonly told story about the battle of agincourt and the chopping off of fingers of the archers? It's a common enough story to address and point out that it's apocryphal EdwinAmi (talk) 02:08, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]